We discuss decisions made under the Gospel and how the consequences can be positive or negative; how our best achievements can be forgotten if we buck the system.

November 10, 2024

Tim: Before we get into Hebrews, let us do some review. The tax collectors and sinners didn’t need to have the law preached to them to feel condemned. Their being scorned and reviled by their religious leadership was enough condemnation. It’s safe to say that the message Jesus preached to the tax collectors and centers was not one of fear and trembling. He did not preach a message from Mount Sinai.

The tax collectors and sinners did not need more preaching on the wrath of God since Jesus preached something that was designed to remove the fear and bring peace. We can take this into Jesus’ dinner conversation with Zacchaeus. Something said during the meal that had an amazing effect on Zacchaeus. When dinner was over, Zacchaeus did not act like a guy driven by fear. There was the total absence of fear, and he spoke like a man driven more by joy and gratitude. He did not respond like a man who was told he needed to stop his sin and work harder at keeping the law.

I think this is where churches get the Gospel wrong. They believe that people will be whipped into moral shape if they are subjected to preaching of the law and the 10 commandments. There seems to be a lack of trust that a community that is perfectly loved by the father and spreads that love among one another will rise morally. There’s a suspicion that preaching the vast love of God will fail when it comes to producing kindness, gentleness, patience, compassion, and forgiveness.

When Paul called these traits the “fruit of the spirit,” did he have the garden of Eden in mind where their loving Creator planted trees bearing fruit and called them to eat freely of them? I continue to be fascinated by the picture of Cain and Abel. Outside of the garden of Eden, the fruit grown from the cursed ground was tainted. God planted the trees and grew the fruit within the garden, the produce from Cain’s efforts led to him murdering his brother.

The scribes and Pharisees feasted more on the harvest of Cain than they did the fruit of Eden, which would be Christ. We’ve pointed out before that Cain’s offering was a sweat offering, the product of his hard work. I wonder if Paul has this image in mind when he calls the product of the flesh, “the deeds of the flesh” and the product of the Gospel “the fruit of the spirit.”

Roger: It was in the garden that they walked with God in the cool of the day. In Christ, we have a better garden in the New Jerusalem because we do not have the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. With the Tree of Life, we walk with God at all times. There is no darkness, and the gates will never close. We have a continuous flow of the water of life from the throne. We are not tempted to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil because it doesn’t even exist in the New Heavens and Earth. In keeping with the message of Hebrews, we have a better garden in Jesus.

Tim: Exactly right! The song Amazing Grace is a tremendous musical expression of the Gospel. We have been looking at Hebrews 12 and the Lord’s discipline. Some interpret this discipline as punitive, but it was intended to keep them on the track until the end. It was meant to keep them from falling away as is often repeated in Hebrews. Starting in the spring of AD 66, there would be a separation of the winners and losers of this race when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem. The discipline of the Lord was to ensure that the followers of Christ would be in the winner’s circle.

When they saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this was like them seeing the finish line. It was like they could see the winner’s crown or the gold medal in sight. In this race, there wasn’t going to be a second place. The only way to win was to get out of Jerusalem when the armies appeared. The Lord’s discipline at this point was to prepare them for this crucial moment. It was the encouragement to stay on the path and do not stray from it. Going back to the Old Covenant was a guaranteed disaster.

Roger: I was thinking how loving parents would say right before they disciplined their child, “This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.” We are told that the chastening for our well-being fell upon Jesus. He took that chastening for us, it hurt him more.

Tim: It is important that we understand the end of Christ’s work. We discussed how Jesus said on the cross, “…it is finished” (John 19:30). That takes some understanding because his work really wasn’t fully complete. There was still the resurrection, the ascension, Pentecost, and of course the Parousia which was going to happen 40 years later. Our conclusion was that what was finished on the cross was the useless sacrifices of bulls and goats in an attempt to take away sins.

Lynn: Don’t you think that the consequences of our actions need to be reconsidered? If we suffer consequences from doing something stupid or mean, legalists will interpret that as being punishment from God. In truth, we bring those things on ourselves.

Tim: Any student of history or observer of human nature understands that decisions have consequences, some good and some bad. It is also true that even good decisions can have painful consequences. We are told that Jesus endured the cross motivated by the joy that was ahead of him (Hebrews 12:2). The decision to submit to crucifixion would certainly not be considered an optimum choice, but there was a goal ahead of him that made his decision desirable.

The reality is that when Christians make decisions based upon their principles, there is no guarantee that the consequences will be painful. There may be an outcome that will be to the glory of God, but not before trial by fire.

Heather: There will always be good consequences and negative consequences. Are we overlooking the good consequences?

Lynn: What I was saying is that legalists tend to look at the negative consequences and claim that it is the punishment of God and repentance is in order.

Tim: If we embrace the Gospel, the negative consequences of our actions are in no way interpreted as being the punishment of God. It is contrary to the Gospel that God has the stick out and he is wailing on us out of anger.

Heather: I understand that the consequences are not always immediate.

Valori: Can you give us an example of what you’re talking about?

Tim: I could give you a personal example that you are all familiar with. Our exile from the Baptist ranks twenty-two years ago is a splendid example. You know that I tend to be very introspective. I mention this story a lot, not because I haven’t gotten over it, but because traumatic events always leave a mark. That event was a milestone in my life that not only left a scar, but had a profound effect on my thinking.

I don’t think that is a bad thing.  Paul reminds people of his own scars. I think receiving the thirty-nine lashes multiple times ingrained itself in his memory. It almost became a routine part of his life since at one point he says he cannot even remember how many times he was beaten. He never complained and saw it as a beautiful offering to his Father. When I consider leaving the Baptist ranks, hurtful as it was, I think it was one of the best things that ever happened to me.

I made decisions early on that I thought would bring about good. I got a bachelor’s degree in theology, then a Master’s Degree. I spent a year at Oxford studying New Testament which would wind up looking good on my resumé. My credentials would sound good in any church, but it was not good enough when I strayed from the denominational statement of faith.

When I embraced doctrine in good conscience that was contrary to the Baptist Faith and Message, nobody really cared about my degrees and my Oxford studies. They were meaningless because of my failure to affirm the denominational tradition. I could compare it to Paul in Philippians 3 where he says, “If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless” (vs. 4-6).

When Paul started preaching Christ, nobody cared about his earlier accomplishments. In Acts 22, he listed his accolades, but when he declared that Jesus was sending him to preach the good news to the Gentiles, the crowd wanted to kill him! They ceased to care about his previous accomplishments.

When Paul challenged the tradition of his people, nobody cared about his ancestry, his education, and his zeal for the institution. He even added that he mistreated the church with the blessing of the leaders. He was a stellar Jew but the moment he bucked the traditions of the institution, nobody cared about his resumé. Nobody cared anymore that he was a Hebrew of Hebrews or as to the law blameless.

What drove his decision to engage in such suffering? After listing his fleshly credentials, he says, “But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be lost in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ.”

Let me repeat: When Paul took a position contrary to the established religion of the time, nobody cared about his heritage or his education; nobody cared about his rabbinic background; nobody cared that he once held the coats of those who stoned Stephen. Further, once he became totally satisfied with Christ alone, he did not care that nobody cared.

Roger: That righteousness he had according to the law was not righteousness at all.

Tim: Reflecting on my own past where nobody cared about my education, my degrees, or my teaching abilities, I would still maintain that it is the best thing that ever happened to me. It was a very painful event, but it set off a domino effect that leads me to today where I have a greater joy and liberty in Christ that I ever had within the Baptist Church. I do not know if this answers the original question, but I think it shows that principled decisions that have painful consequences can still work out for a greater glory over time.

Dwight: Still, after all these years your knowledge and education have come in handy when exploring the Gospel. He has still been able to use you even though it was wasted on the Baptists.

Tim: Right! I would not say my education was time wasted, it was just wasted on the Baptists.

Ty: No matter how much talent or education you have, it is still ineffective if you are under the law. You are never going to be perfect enough to be accepted and you will always be condemned for something. You can never do what God gave you the power to do because the association was always going to keep you from being effective. In leaving that, you no longer have the condemnation, and you can be effective. You are free from the torture of not being able to do anything.

Tim: Back in the Baptist setting, I would express the desire to move forward in a rather provocative manner. I would say things like, “We need to take all the pews out into the field and set them on fire!” That did not go over well.

Roger: When we hear the word “consequences” we think negatively because learning from our mistakes tends to be painful. Paul said the temporary, light afflictions of his current time were not worthy to be compared to the glory which was about to follow. What we went through was temporary and it did not seem light at the time. It felt negative and painful but as time went on, it became more and more positive. We were motivated by love for one another.

I didn’t see that then when I sat in your living room and told you I was tired and ready to quit church. I had lost valuable relationships, and I was ready to say “to heck with all of it.” You had gained enough of a vision and shared that with me. You did not force them on me, you just encouraged me to stick with it. We were not going to have a big building, we were going to meet in our homes. I can say that my life is richer and freer, and that turned out to be a very positive consequence of my love and respect for you. I think everyone in this room can’t say the same thing. That negative experience has become a huge positive consequence!

Tim: Well, I appreciate that. If we go back to Lynn’s original question that theology saying decisions made for God should only have good outcomes, we might point out this is the thinking of the Old Covenant. It said that if you are faithful then you will be the recipient of blessings. If you are faithful, you gain more money, not lose it; if you are faithful, you achieve success, you do not fail in life.

Modern churches are packed every Sunday with people wanting to hear about the rewards they will be receiving for their faithfulness to God. In our understanding, “blessings,” mean the love or presence of God no matter the circumstances. In the legalist’s theology, they mean material goods and quantifiable success. When compared to the Gospel, those who believe this are destined for disappointment.

If it were true, then Paul would be one of the greatest failures in Christian history.  Here’s a guy who preaches faithfully Jesus Christ and him crucified, but he winds up getting beaten, arrested, condemned by the religious establishment, shipwrecked, and suffers beyond imagination. Some might counsel him, “Paul, you were not cut out to be a minister. You are not seeing the blessings of God because instead of converts and baptisms, you’re getting scars and abuse.”     

Ty: That is the Baptist perception

Tim: Pretty much.       

Roger: A lot of contemporary Christianity.  

Ty: But it wasn’t Paul’s perception.  

Tim: No, that’s the point here. If you present his biography as recorded in the book of Acts, he would not be regarded as a great Baptist minister. His sermons mostly resulted in riots instead of revivals.

Ty: Isn’t that the irony of the modern church, that they are reading and venerating Paul, but they’re not emulating him or practicing his Gospel?

Roger: They are reading Paul but ignoring him. It is like Thomas Jefferson who cut up the Gospels and threw out the stories of Jesus’ miracles leaving only his teachings. That’s unlike what we read at the end of Hebrews 11 where the Old Testament faithful experienced terrible things as well as good.

Tim: Making decisions based upon Gospel principles tends to be a gamble. Going back to what Roger mentioned about the Old Testament faithful, some bad things happened to good people. Some of that depends on geography. Being a zealous Christian in America is less risky than being one in China or the Middle East. It costs more to be a Christian in those places with more painful outcomes. Yet, the Christians in those places are every bit as blessed and loved by God as any Christian in America. The father sees them as faithful children even if they suffer at the hands of evil men and women.

As we have discussed before, my theory is that the genuine expressions of the Gospel lie on the outskirts of church history. True Gospel churches are not the ones getting all the publicity. They are not like the mega churches with opulent buildings and flashy worship teams. The churches that reach out and love are usually confined to the fringe. We talked about one ministry where the leaders complained that the institutional churches would not join them in reaching the outcasts, so they left there and started their own movement meeting in bars where they would converse about the Gospel. Despite how Baptists measure success, in the Kingdom of God the greatest success does not always translate into the greatest publicity or statistics.

Valori: What should we expect in our own life, though I am sure that’s different for each individual?

Tim: I had a seminary professor who said, “The New Testament word for success is ‘faithful.’” I thought that was profound! In the Baptist ranks, success was measured by numbers and dollars. You are successful when you get a number of people walking down the aisles at an invitation. True success in the Kingdom is not calculated that way. If we used Valori as an example, she is successful by committing her life to keep taking care of her daughters’ needs and loving them sacrificially. That is not quantifiable, but it’s successful in Kingdom terms.

Ty: My story of success is the simple fact that I am not the person I was back in 1985. I have grown tremendously since then and my success in that is all because of Christ.

Tim: We could argue that we have a room full of successful people here. This is seen in that you give yourselves daily to your family and promote love, joy, and encouragement. The next verse here says, “Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed” (Hebrews 12:12-13).

Success is a community effort, and it’s based on strengthening and encouraging one another, not judging one another. When we strengthen one another in our gatherings, we have engaged in Gospel success. In our earlier discussions, we talked about making sure that our brothers and sisters in Christ are in a condition to get over the finish line. You don’t have to have big numbers to gain spiritual strength. Strength can come in small groups or even one-on-one. Nobody can be strengthened by the concept of “nickels and noses;” how much money did we bring in and how many people did we get down to the front?

Roger: A good picture of this is the Amish community in Pennsylvania where a gunman shot some of the school kids. The shooter had lost his child and was angry at God and he held the Amish schoolchildren at gunpoint. He killed some of them. The families who had lost loved ones helped the widow bury him and pay her bills. Some may judge them for their legalism, but this was an example of the Gospel of Christ in action.

(Roger is referring to the events of October 2, 2006, in an Amish community in Nickel Mines, PA. A gunman entered the schoolhouse and shot 10 girls, 5 of whom died.  Here is a quote from the article linked below:

“On the day of the killings, members of the Nickel Mines community took food to (the shooter’s) widow. Six days after the shooting, families who had just buried their daughters attended (his) funeral. Money from funds that poured in from around the world was diverted to the killer’s family, even though many victims faced huge medical bills.”

This is a good article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/02/amish-shooting-10-year-anniversary-pennsylvania-the-happening)

Tim: I don’t think it’s right to make a blanket slur of all Baptists in the institution and all organized religion. While we can find much to criticize about the organization, we will find many people in the pews who will rally together and go help someone in need. We have brothers and sisters attending every institution, I’m just not a fan of the institution itself. Let’s close.